Kotin's Notes

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Philosophy with Mikalmas

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22nd of Imaerasta -- Carnival of Freaks

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I walked in on a discussion in progress.  

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Mikalmas says, "Well, of course.  There is a season appointed to all things upon birth."

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Mikalmas says, "That included the Drakes.  That includes the Arkati now."

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Mikalmas says, "Nothing is truly infinite.  All things are finite, all living things I should say.  And I suspect with the proper passage of time, all non-living things as well."
 

Mikalmas says, "It is a truly perplexing thing to speak of life and death."

 

Mikalmas says, "I've studied it for over a millennia and still have more questions than answers."

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Claede says, "Let's hope not. Everything recognizable might fade but life should always go on. In some fashion, in some place and on some place; no matter how alien or horrible or sweet and free."
 

Mikalmas says, "I know my existence is a blink in the scheme of time."

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Claede says, "There's death and then there's oblivion. Then..corruption."

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Mikalmas says, "This is why we attempt to preserve the past, protect the present, and predict the future."

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Speaking to Mikalmas, Claede says, "Your existence matters as much as the warmth suffusing the stone by those flames. As much as an exercise of will by an Arkati. To the skinned knee of a child."
 

Mikalmas asks, "And in a thousand years who will remember the stone?"

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Mikalmas asks, "What child will remember a single skinned knee?"

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Mikalmas says, "It is transient.  That doesn't mean it is not to be enjoyed.  I simply view all life in the greater scheme of things, in what will be for all living things.  I may not even be making sense now."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "The child who was skinned by that stone will remember."

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Mikalmas says, "It matters to me, now.  But I realize how very small my place is in the cosmos.  And I realize that all living things will die.  If anything, this reminds me how precious life is."
 

Claede says, "Memory is a linear thing. Ours, anyway. Often subject to flawed remembrances. You're not wrong; it's all in transition to the continuation. Death isn't the end. Time is not straight or even winding road."
 

Speaking to Claede, you ask, "What do you mean that memory is linear?"

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Speaking to you, Mikalmas asks, "The child will remember as long as the abrasion exists.  How many skinned knees do you specifically remember from your childhood?  And of those, how many of the gravel that skinned them do you remember?"
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "I recalls them all."

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Mikalmas says, "Well, then truly your member is better than 99.95 percent of us if you remember every scrape and every abrasion you ever had."

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Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "Though, unlike mosts, I takes notes."

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Speaking to you, Claede says, "It's a thing we look back on to gauge the momentum pressing us forward. It's subject to that linear perspective of events that had come, that are, and might be."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, Claede says, "I don't. That'd be absurd. I'd go mad."
 

Speaking to Claede, you say, "Only if you only count your personal memory ... memory is NOT linear if you read or listen to experiences of others who have come before you."
 

Speaking to you, Claede says, "Exactly. Come before you. Momentum pushing forward. It is a linear experience."

 

Mikalmas asks, "What meaning exists if none live who remember it?"
 

You say, "No."

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Speaking to Mikalmas, Claede says, "That isn't my concern to consider, I won't be around to worry over it."

 

Speaking to himself, Corpip says, "Being forgotten is a terrible thing to happen."

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Speaking to Claede, you ask, "Can a single line has two or more paths going forward or back?"
 

Speaking to Corpip, Mikalmas says, "With the passing of enough time, no one will remember any of us, if they remember even anything of our way of life at all."

 

Kotin wonders how theses folks come up with their "linear" philosophy

 

Speaking to Corpip, Mikalmas says, "I hate to be so disappointing, but might as well teach you while you're young."
 

Speaking to you, Claede says, "That might depend on in what relative position you consider it."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "Not if it's written down."

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Speaking to Mikalmas, Corpip says, "Unless there our names are left upon things that people may remember."
 

Mikalmas asks, "Written?  What form of writing exists that is eternal?"
 

Mikalmas says, "Even the stone crumbles."
 

Speaking to Claede, you say, "It cannot be relative, according to your position that memory is linear -- it's either on a single line, or it's not ... if it's not on a single line, then it is not required to be linear."

Speaking to Mikalmas, Corpip says, "Longer than memories at least."

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Claede says, "Anyhow. Why don't you see about blessing those effigies or.."
Claede shrugs at Mikalmas.

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Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "Writing that is transcribed from one generation to the next."
 

Speaking to a massive roaring bonfire, Corpip says, "I suppose I my name may be known, at least to have existed, as long as the Landing stands."
 

Mikalmas asks, "What exists of the Drakes now?  A few scraps here and there?  Do we have their extensive libraries of history?"
 

Claede says, "The individual passing on the wisdom is perceiving it relative to his own memories and experiences of the past. For you, it's the present that might help you toward future choices."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, Raelee asks, "Are you seeking examples of the eternal written word?"

Mikalmas says, "No."

 

Speaking to Raelee, Claede says, "Please."
Corpip blinks.
Speaking to Raelee, Mikalmas says, "I'm arguing that nothing lasts forever."

 

Mikalmas says, "Even written word."

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Speaking to Raelee, you say, "He not want evidence to contradict his belief."

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Speaking to his ebonwood harp, Corpip says, "I think I liked it better when we were just singing songs."
 

Speaking to Claede, Raelee says, "The Grandfather gifted the mortal races with writing.   Those first glyphs were written upon a rock face."

 

Speaking to Mikalmas, Claede says, "It's written in the marrow of your soul. Eternity. Just not as you expect it, want it, understand it or need it to be."

 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "Written word presses on as it is transcribed ... it's written in our being ..."
 

Speaking to Claede, Raelee says, "Shards still exist.  The writing remains."
 

Corpip says, "More importantly, the knowledge that it even existed at all, still exists."
 

Mikalmas says, "The Grandfather came after the Drakes."

 

Speaking to Raelee, Claede says, "Yes, I know of this rock. I would not deny that. Language itself is a shard of that moment. These thoughts."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, Claede says, "During, not After."
 

Mikalmas says, "The Arkati dawned at the time of the Drake's sunset, yes.  But now you're arguing semantics."
 

Raelee says, "Unfortunately, one cannot prove writing would exist from the time of the Drakes as the written word as a form of communication did not come until later."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you ask, "You speak of the drakes as though they left nothing behind ... if that were, indeed, true ... how do you know of the Drake?"

 

Raelee says, "Ultimately, logically speaking, one cannot prove an eternal nature without existing for an eternity oneself."

 

Mikalmas says, "The mere thought that anything lasts eternally is just absurd."
 

Mikalmas says, "They did leave things behind.  But in the next ten thousand years even less will exist than exists now."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "Depends on how you perceive consciousness ...."

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Claede says, "I would argue that he is less the Arkati of signs, symbol and language and rather the passion to communication the world. To know it, to understand it, to define it and give it shape. Into shape, it can be mastered, tooled. So what might or may not have been on the rock.."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, Corpip says, "Physical evidence isn't important as much as the knowledge and acknowledgement that something existed, that is most important."
 

Corpip says, "Something exists as long as someone, somewhere, knows about it."
 

Speaking to Raelee, Claede says, "Is less a direct morphological evolution of pattern matching and more of a spiritual momentum."
 

Corpip says, "When there is no one left with that knowledge, then it is gone."
 

Speaking to Claede, Raelee says, "I prefer the former."
 

Mikalmas says, "Mental illness exists and a lot of people remember a lot of stuff that never existed.  I'd prefer something other than memory."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "It's in your being ..."

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Speaking to Mikalmas, Corpip says, "That is the other edge of the sword, I suppose... as swords are just as useless."
 

Mikalmas says, "I just cannot in good faith debate with anyone who will say anything is eternal.  That just defies logic to me."
 

Rendena softly asks, "Are you talking about...the shadow dragon?"
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you ask, "Gravity is eternal ... you know otherwise?"
 

Speaking to himself, Corpip repeats, "Shadow... dragon?"
 

Speaking to Raelee, Claede asks, "That..a shard of his birth and the flowering of language?"
 

Mikalmas says, "Gravity exists only when an object exists big enough to produce it."
 

Speaking to Raelee, Claede says, "Whatever the language was, I would think that The Grandfather is still in possession of it."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "No ... all matter produces gravity."

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Speaking to Claede, Raelee says, "I would expect so."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "Therefore, whether that matter is "alone" or not, gravity exists."
 

Speaking to Claede, Raelee says, "No.  It is only a very small fragment.  Language is difficult to decipher with no greater context."
 

Mikalmas says, "I think we've strayed very far from what this conversation was about."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, Corpip asks, "Did we really though?"
 

Speaking to a massive roaring bonfire, Corpip says, "Magic is terrible, that's the point."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "You assert that you won't discuss anything with someone who thinks anything is eternal."
 

Speaking to Claede, Raelee says, "Purportedly, the Illistim have a larger fragment buried in the vaults of the Library Aies.   I have not, however, had the opportunity to see it with my own eyes."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "I proposed that gravity is eternal."

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Mikalmas says, "Yes, we certainly did.  Gravity is a concept of physics.  I might as well argue my life will go on because the cells that make up my body will someday be spread throughout the cosmos."
 

Mikalmas says, "Its grasping at straws, at best."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "Not your cells ... your particles."
 

Speaking to himself, Corpip says, "I hope I don't have to feed my particles."
 

Mikalmas asks, "And my cells will exist because the particles that made them will still exist, just in another form?"
Mikalmas asks, "Do you see how absurd that sounds?"

 

Speaking to Raelee, Claede says, "Those were my thoughts when asking; I cannot imagine not seeing the stone for myself to bring meaning from the unknown and bare crystal and rock."
 

Corpip asks, "If you find a rock on the ground, it is a rock?"
 

Corpip says, "Or lets say a diamond."
 

Mikalmas asks, "Is it a rock, or a collection of particles?"
 

Mikalmas says, "That's how far we have devolved into semantics."

 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "No .. it is absurd because you think that YOU are you .... when, in fact, you are an amalgam of billions of particles, working together for a short moment in time."
 

Corpip asks, "If I were to chisel this diamond into a fancy shape and set it in gold to make a necklace, is it a necklace or a diamond?"
 

Mikalmas says, "For the sake of being right."
 

Mikalmas says, "Abandoning the merit of the conversation."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "A rock is a collection of particles waiting to be grouped together."
 

You say, "Feed plants ... plants feed everything else."

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Corpip says, "Perhaps a diamond is a bad example... the rock may be better, or metal, something that can be changed in shape and purpose, but still be made of the same thing."
 

You say, "Those particles from the rocks become you ... become me."
 

Corpip asks, "Are things what they are, or what they are made of ?"
 

Speaking to Corpip, Mikalmas says, "According to some folks, whatever fits their argument best."
 

Corpip asks, "Is a song the words, the tune, the feelings it invokes?"
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, Corpip asks, "Maybe that is the way it should be?"
 

Corpip says, "That way, you take what means the most to you at the time."
 

Speaking to Corpip, you ask, "Do you have control of yourself or is it the billions of cells living in you that control your mood and hunger in control?"
 

Speaking to you, Corpip says, "I don't know, I just know the hunger."
 

Mikalmas says, "If someone really is arguing with me that I will exist for eternity because the building blocks that make up my body will always exist then, well, I've gone as far into that conversation as I can possibly go, or care to go."
 

Speaking to you, Corpip asks, "And does it matter beyond that?"
 

Speaking to a massive roaring bonfire, Corpip says, "If I can't change anything other than the hunger... it shouldn't."
 

Speaking to Corpip, you say, "You can't change the hunger because those beings in you demand it."
 

Speaking to Corpip, you say, "They demand interaction with new particles."
 

Speaking to Raelee, Claede asks, "Perhaps less suspect burning with focused elemental flame?"

 

Speaking to you, Corpip says, "I'll be ok just saying "I ate food and wasn't hungry, for a time"."
 

Speaking to Corpip, you say, "Therefore, that rock that feeds that plant becomes "alive" in you."

 

Speaking to Claede, Mikalmas says, "I really wish you would explain exactly what you mean by that.  Seriously.  Repeating yourself without any clarification or insight is not beneficial to the conversation at all."

 

Speaking to Mikalmas, Corpip asks, "Did you see the effigies in the fire?"
 

Speaking to Claede, Raelee asks, "Is that a suggestion?"

 

Speaking to Mikalmas, Corpip whispers aloud, "Some move!"

 

Speaking to Corpip, Mikalmas says, "No.  I have seen nothing."
 

Mikalmas says, "So I'm a bit confused."

 

Speaking to Mikalmas, Corpip says, "Watch the fire for a time."
 

Small black stones line the periphery of this flaming tempest.  Brightly painted effigies have been stacked into piles as fuel for the blaze.  Black smoke billows upwards from the fire with the occasional glowing ember along for the ride.

 

You watch a massive roaring bonfire closely for a moment.  Wondrous things fail to occur.

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Hauling an effigy along by its feet, a hunchbacked man tosses it into the bonfire.
 

Speaking to a massive roaring bonfire, Corpip says, "A lot can be learned from just watching and listening."

 

Speaking to Mikalmas, Claede says, "Do whatever it is that clerics do. Those effigies; they shift, the appear to move on their own and they feed the flame continuously. It stinks of the shedding of scales."

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Mikalmas says, "You'll have to excuse me in that I have been here an entirety of maybe an hour, and have been engaged in a rather spirited debate and hadn't noticed what exactly was going on with the bonfire."
 

Speaking to Mikalmas, you say, "Thank you very kindly for your discourse."

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